Mercury Rising 鳯女

Politics, life, and other things that matter

Ratzi reinstates Holocaust denier

Posted by Charles II on January 24, 2009

Maybe some of the people who are so quick to yell “anti-Semitism” when one criticizes Israel’s actions will have some time left over for what appears to be genuine anti-Semitism at very high levels in the Catholic Church. Tom Kington and Jamie Doward, The Guardian:

Tension between the Vatican and Jewish groups looked set to explode yesterday after Pope Benedict XVI rehabilitated a British bishop who has claimed no Jews died in gas chambers during the second world war.

Benedict yesterday welcomed back into the Roman Catholic Church Richard Williamson and three other men who were excommunicated in 1988 after being ordained without Vatican permission. The three had been appointed by breakaway French archbishop Marcel Lefebvre. The Vatican decree issued yesterday spoke of overcoming the “scandal of divisiveness” and seeking reconciliation with Lefebvre’s conservative order, the Society of Saint Pius X, which opposes the modernisation of Catholic doctrine.

But Jewish groups have warned the Pope that the decision could damage Catholic-Jewish relations after Williamson claimed in an interview, broadcast last week, that historical evidence “is hugely against six million having been deliberately gassed in gas chambers as a deliberate policy of Adolf Hitler … I believe there were no gas chambers”.

Meanwhile, Richard Falk of the United Nations has invoked a parallel between the assault on the Warsaw ghetto and the assault on Gaza. Haaretz:

There is evidence that Israel committed war crimes during its 22-day campaign in the Gaza Strip and there should be an independent inquiry, UN investigator Richard Falk said Thursday.

The mental anguish of the civilians who suffered the assault is so great that the entire population of Gaza could be seen as casualties, said Falk, UN special rapporteur on human rights in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.

Falk, speaking by phone from his home in California, said compelling evidence that Israel’s actions in Gaza violated international humanitarian law required an independent investigation into whether they amounted to war crimes.

Falk said Israel had made no effort to allow civilians to escape the fighting.

“To lock people into a war zone is something that evokes the worst kind of international memories of the Warsaw Ghetto, and sieges that occur unintentionally during a period of wartime,” Falk, who is Jewish, said, referring to the starvation and murder of Warsaw’s Jews by Nazi Germany in World War II.

Added 1/26: In case it’s not obvious, I am trying to illustrate that Israel’s actions in Gaza, which produce a justified revulsion among everyone including Jews like Falk who know about the Holocaust, undermine any effort to stand against genuine anti-Semitism as represented by Richard Williamson. Predictably, Falk has been attacked as being biased against Israel, while the alarm that should be raging over the tacit endorsement of anti-Semitism by a Pope who participated as a boy in the Third Reich is muted.

25 Responses to “Ratzi reinstates Holocaust denier”

  1. Stormcrow said

    Building Protestantism.

    Through mass conversion of disgusted Catholics.

    LOL

  2. Charles II said

    It could be, Stormcrow. But he could as easily be building Islam or Wicca. If I were a Catholic, my main focus would be just getting out the door.

  3. Looks like the pin heads who scream at Israel are going to sit this one out. like always that is until Israel says something and then well you know what happens then……..

  4. Stormcrow said

    Looks like the pin heads who scream at Israel are going to sit this one out. like always that is until Israel says something and then well you know what happens then……

    Now where did that come from?

    Although I must confess, over the last few years, I suppose have reluctantly become, by your definition, one of “the pin heads who scream at Israel”.

    Ever since it became clear to me that the people running Kadima, Likud, the IDF, and just about everybody else who matters in Israeli politics and military affairs, have descended to the same batshit-insane tribal ethnic-cleansing mental level as Hamas.

    The basic difference is that the IDF has the tools to at least attempt this, on the operational level. Hamas, OTOH, is conducting pissant nuisance raids with oversized bottle rockets that nobody in their right minds would consider using for that purpose for more than 20 or 30 milliseconds. Especially when the consequences involve fighting it out with an enemy armed with first class tanks and artillery in a tiny strip of land not much larger than a phone booth.

    Of course, grand-strategic consequences of such an operational “success” for Israel probably won’t be survivable over the long term. But nobody over there seems too concerned with that, these days. I guess dying with your teeth in somebody’s throat is supposed to be better than survival.

    Talk about “becoming what you behold” … The modern Israeli polity is the best referent for that description I can think of offhand.

    I guess you have to be a pinhead to scream at somebody who’s trying to commit suicide by running off the end of a cliff. A smart guy would just keep quiet, watch them run off the edge, and wave bye-bye, eh?

  5. the home made rockets are the pride of Hamas. they are the long range stones, and if one of them kills an israeli it is their pride and joy that did it not the russian/chinese made stuff.. it was theirs!
    now as for the GRAD 122mm rockets these are usually used in a barrage type attack. mounted on trucks fired off by the hundreds at a time carpeting the target area with ball bearing shrapnel that tears through anthing and everything in it’s path. like a giant flying claymore mine if you understand jut not a directional explosion. the one thing about the GRAD that is better is it’s range and the fact that the bb’s inside of it arent covered in rat poison and shit like on the kassams that hamas built.
    Israel sucked up more daily rocket attacks then anyone could hope that their country would suck up/ the fact that we did it for so long had me in a state of amazment .
    how many times does hamas get to poke the bear before the bear takes a swat at hamas? and with the voting in of hamas and their declaired war against israel Well looks like Gaza voted in a real winner…. put hamas on the little yellow bus. cause they can’t think straight

  6. Stormcrow said

    Yeah, Hamas was STUPID. I presume you read my earlier comment, so you know what I think of their general state of sanity.

    And just how smart was Operation Cast Lead?

    Hamas is STILL AT IT. Rockets.

    From reports, they are even more whacked out than they were a month ago, and that’s saying something. The tunnels are back in operation, bigger and better than ever, except that now, they’re just about all being run directly by Hamas instead of being a patchwork run by everybody and his brother.

    So tell me, what exactly did the IDF ACTUALLY WIN?

    Somewhere between 500 – 1500 dead Palestinians, most of them civilians?

    Tighter Hamas control in Gaza?

    Further radicalization of the locals?

    Incentive for Hamas to develop along the lines so profitably exploited by Hisbullah?

    Remember Hisbullah? Remember Marun Ar-Ras, which the IDF shouldn’t have taken more than a few hours to blow through and then past? About 100 meters past the Blue Line? Yeah, the IDF took it after beating their heads against it for for weeks, but they paid Satan’s own interest doing so. The first thing I though of after hearing about the fighting for that same village for more than a week was a place name you ought to look up if you’re not familiar with it already: St. Vith.

    Voting for Hamas? Yeah, not very smart. Just exactly what does that tell you about the state of mind of the people in Gaza who did that? You want more of that state of mind, rather than less? That’s what you bought this last month. You won’t enjoy paying for it, I promise you.

    Don’t you people think strategically AT ALL?

  7. Charles II said

    Robert, I appreciate your willingness to debate on the basis of fact rather than emotion. It’s true that Grad missiles are significantly more dangerous than Qassam rockets.

    But the fact is that as of January 14th, roughly 150 Grads had been launched, out of 10,000 projectiles since 2001. Most of those were launched after Israel attacked Gaza. As far as I know, none were launched during the ceasefire.

    The fact is that fewer than a dozen Israelis have been killed by missiles of any kind from the withdrawal three years ago until the attack on Gaza.

    The fact is that Israel’s blockade of humanitarian supplies amounted to an act of war under international law, one which an American president has called a “crime” and an “atrocity.”

    The fact is that Israel broke the earlier cease fire on November 4th and has been planning this assault almost since before the cease fire was agreed to.

    The fact is that Israel’s attack on Gaza has weakened it politically, alienating allies around the world. The disproportionality of the deaths, the use of weapons forbidden in densely populated areas, the refusal to allow in independent observers–not to mention doctors and humanitarian aid, the unprovoked attacks on United Nations facilities… all these things and many more have combined to make the world think that Israel has lost its moral compass.

    One innocent Palestinian life weighs exactly as much as one innocent Israeli’s life in G-d’s hands and in the eyes of the world.

  8. so in your perfect world we are supposed to sit back and take any and all rocket attacks from Hams or anyone else?
    are you sane?
    I’d love to see your country try and suck up even 1 rocket attack! and not do shit.
    emotions? hell no. i’m just amazed at how anyone with half a brain cell could even say “suck the attacks up, not enough of you have died to permit you to strike back”

  9. Stormcrow said

    The only way you’re going to stop those attacks is to kill or extrude every single Palestinian in Gaza and turn the place into a parking lot bulldozed over a cemetery.

    When this happens, you can pretty much expect to lose the support (hell, let’s be honest, the blank check) you’ve been getting from the US these last 60 years. There are limits to what even AIPAC can achieve. If the IDF replicates Rwanda in Gaza, you’re going to exceed those limits so fast you won’t even notice until the bottom falls out for good.

    When that happens, the high probability is that every single last Israeli will either be extruded or killed inside of the next 30 years.

    Would you prefer that outcome, to what you’re now enduring? That seems to be the choice you want to make here.

  10. Stormcrow?
    LOL Blank check?
    Please. oh please.. give me the patiance not to laugh full on in his face!
    OK too late
    blank check my arse!
    For every cent you give use we give back 100 fold in new technology.. for everyt jet you give us (you don’t give them but lets leave it at that so you don’t implode) we give you back an improved jet. this goes for every other weapons system that we have ever used from the US or elsewhere. during our wars we give america a peice of every captured artical of war, that means we keep the boys at aberdeen proving grounds very busy… it’s not for feww sonny., it’s not a blank check… we repay our debts ten fold. and it’s not just military. it’s als in agri.med.tech.sci.and more… but then you don’t know these things. or are just blind to them….
    as for turning gaza into a parking lot, not worth the effort, now if the hamas boys want to stop shooting their little rockets at us then maybe they might improve their collective lot in life and then stop dancing the dance of death

  11. Stormcrow said

    Wow.

    I have a new referent for the term “spun-up”.

  12. how about backing up your blank check statement? or is it too hard for someone breast fed on stupidity?

  13. Charles II said

    Robert Goldman says, “so in your perfect world we are supposed to sit back and take any and all rocket attacks from Hams or anyone else?”

    The rocket attacks began after Israel broke the cease fire and after long endurance of an illegal blockade by Israel.

    It doesn’t take a perfect world for Israel to sincerely uphold the agreements it made.

    If, after Israel behaves with sincerity, Hamas launches rockets, then there would not be criticism of a proportional response.

    Now, Robert, I thanked you for being willing to debate facts rather than emotion. That appears to have been premature. I do not appreciate you calling names and will start editing or deleting your posts if you keep it up.

    I would also like an acknowledgement from you that your claim about “GRAD 122mm rockets ….fired off by the hundreds at a time” was complete cock and bull. If you claim to believe in G-d, I would point out that it’s also a violation of the Commandment against bearing false witness.

  14. Charles II said

    On the issue of aid to Israel, from the CRS:

    Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. From 1976-2004, Israel was the largest annual recipient of U.S. foreign
    assistance, having recently been supplanted by Iraq. Since 1985, the United States has
    provided nearly $3 billion in grants annually to Israel.

    There are promises of that being reduced, and total aid declined from a high of $4B in 2000 to $2.5B in 2007. But reductions have come on the economic grant side, not from military aid. Aid to Israel is about 1% of GDP.

  15. Rocket attacks have been going for like 5 years….. the rockets were still coming when hamas broke truce,,, they broke the true. and today hamas planted an IED on the border breaking once again the truce killing 1 soldier and wounding others who were patroloing on the israeli side of the fence, the gazans also are taking pot shots with high powered rifles at the farmers on the other side of the fence. this also seems to have never caused any of you to say anything……

    and again as for the $$$ everyone of you say that was given for nothing,,, even a twit knows that there is no such thing as a free lunch…. eveery dime gets returned and then some… if you don’t beleive me contact the makers of the F-15 and ask them,

  16. Charles II said

    Robert, it’s simply not true that Hamas broke the truce. I provided you with a link to Avi Shlaim in which he states that:

    A wide gap separates the reality of Israel’s actions from the rhetoric of its spokesmen. It was not Hamas but the IDF that broke the ceasefire. It di d so by a raid into Gaza on 4 November that killed six Hamas men.

    This has been confirmed by Jimmy Carter who was trying to prevent the conflict from escalating.

    As the saying goes, you are entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

    Furthermore, as links that I have provided to you show, about three Qassam rockets a month were landing in Israel during the ceasefire. No one was injured from them. There is no evidence that Hamas authorized or even condoned those wrongful acts. Among a million people, there will always be some hothead. It is the mark of a sincere negotiating partner that it makes allowances for imperfections in a cease fire rather than using them as an excuse to re-kindle the conflict.

    If you have a source that quantifies what Israel returns to the United States, please present it. Otherwise, it’s simply empty words.

  17. one guy sas the HAMAs was the good boy and didn’t break the truce. but for over 5 years the southern part of Israel has sucked up dailiy mortar and rocket attack, DAILY!! so who broke what?
    the He said crap falls short when someone who is on the ground says it along with 99% of the others on the ground.

  18. Stormcrow said

    This is usually the way neocons argue.

    You state that a neocon is mistaken, and cite your sources.

    The neocon replies by essentially repeating his previous statement in a less polite, more stentorian, and louder tone of voice. He will use different and more abusive language, but it’s nearly always the same discredited position.

    Here’s the clearest example I have on file. The link is still up. Mercury Rising readers may have seen this. It was considered instant comedy gold at the time. Radio host Kevin James on MSNBC’s Hardball with Chris Matthews, May 15, 2008.

    Radio Host Kevin James Walks into a Smackdown (Youtube link).

    The Poorman says it best …

    It’s all like this. Everything is just like this. Some blank young person who has memorized a 5×7 index card of focus group-approved phrases, yelling, yelling, yelling over everyone. And you can say what you want, and be as right as you want, but he’s going to keep yelling, and yelling, and yelling until you get sick of it, and at the end of the day everybody knows that Barack Obama goes to secret Muslim church. Everything is like this. An election won’t fix it. This rules the world.

    I guess it’s not just America that has this problem.

    But it’s pretty much destroyed us.

    And Israel has even less margin for that sort of foolishness than we did.

  19. Charles II said

    Yeah. Avi Shlaim and Jimmy Carter are “one guy,” while somebody name of Robert Goldman is the font of all knowledge.

    I’m sorry to say this, Robert, but you’re doing Israel much more damage than Qassams ever could. You’re going around convincing the world that Israel’s defenders don’t care about the truth, don’t care about human life or international law, and aren’t willing to listen.

    Absent any willingness on your part to drop the hasbara and start hearing, this conversation is over.

  20. Because I refuse to be polite,
    I will receive no respect.
    Because I refuse to listen,
    I will be refused the chance to talk.

    edited by siteowner

  21. Stormcrow said

    *snicker*

    You know what happens to blogs that do not moderate comments?

    Sure, you do.

    FYI, what is on display here is not “weakness” to anyone not suffering from an advanced case of testosterone poisoning. It’s good common sense.

    And this is also PW’s blog, not yours. In case you were confused.

    So you are as much obliged to mind your manners as if you were speaking in her home. Breach of the same will get you slapped. And when that happens, nobody here is going to feel a bit sorry for you. In case you were hoping.

  22. Charles II said

    Who are you talking to, Stormcrow?

    Seriously, yes, there’s a pretty simple rule that applies: people who are willing to listen and learn and well as speak and teach are welcome. People who are here to abuse and annoy are not.

    I gave Robert points for raising specific issues, even if they were based on completely false information. False information is susceptible to fact and reason… assuming that there’s a willingness to hear and consider. And heaven knows, I don’t know everything. I am grateful to commenters here and on other sites I visit for supplying me an ocean of insight I might never have received reading on my own. Unfortunately, in Israel, a number of Israelis have ceased to see Palestinians as people and see them only as problems. And so, of course, they see those who disagree with them as stupid or even malign.

    Holocaust denial was the main topic of this thread. While of course different in magnitude, there’s an uncomfortable parallel in type between that and seeing the deaths of hundreds of children and hundreds more women and old people, non-combatants all, as fair recompense for the deaths of a dozen of one’s own innocents. Let’s hope Israel sees the danger of proceeding down the road it is on and turns back.

  23. Stormcrow said

    Who are you talking to, Stormcrow?

    :)

  24. Stormcrow said

    More seriously – yes, denial is ALWAYS a bad idea.

    Ye gods, you’d think after our last 8 years (and the several preceding decades), one could be forgiven for thinking that any nation which displayed the cunning and acumen that Israel has, upon occasion, would learn from our sorry example so as not to repeat it themselves.

    If great nations had gravestones, then

    Garbage In, Garbage Out

    is probably what’d be inscribed on ours.

  25. Charles II said

    Stormcrow says, “Garbage In, Garbage Out.”

    I thought that’s what the 2000 and 2008 elections were about. :-)

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